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Frequent Visitor
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎11-26-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

 

The only point of this post is for MS to see another post from a disgruntled "small business" customer.  I get you need to cater to large business and I guess I get that maybe $2500, 10,000 or $20,000 A MONTH works for some businesses.  If that was the case from the get go, no problem, small businessses could have assessed this and realized this was not an affordable solution for them at this time.  What I have a major problem with is what was initially presented to users was a grosssly different cost model.  It was a cost effective way for lower usage cases and thus was the embedded BI solution of choice for many.  At the time I thought it was a brilliant move by MS.  So, like many others here we dove right in.  We spent time, resources and money to fully embed the services into our SaaS applicaiton and structured our pricing model around it.   And then......surprise.   My costs Power BI costs in 2017 = $900.  My power BI costs in 2018 $30,000 (using lowest tiered pricing currently available).  Now were left scrambling for another solution.

Power BI Team
Posts: 33
Registered: ‎03-22-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

I get the frustration but would like to make sure the numbers are accurate, costs start at $750 a month for an A1 SKU through Azure, so its a max of $9.000 a year. Now with the new A SKUs in Azure for Power BI Embedded you can also reduce costs by pausing the service when not in use, so this number can go down even more. I agree it is not what it used to be in terms of cost, but its also not what it used to be in terms of value. At the end of the day you make your business decisions, we try our best to make your goals and our goals align

Member
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-12-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

I would like to say that it is great to see Microsoft respond to the many comments from developers made on this thread and others over the last six months since the launch of Power BI Premium. The new A1 SKU is now a real possibility and I'm going to give it a go. Wish me luck moving from Power BI Embedded (old) to Power BI Embedded (new)! I am though really worried that the 'peak renders per hour' throttling will prove financially too expensive if my users use the dashboards too much (irony!).

 

Financially it is a huge risk, only mitigated by the fact that I have a loyal set of customers already. If I was starting from scratch, I don't think I would go ahead - too much financial risk still.

 

By running on A1 for 2/3rds of the time (i.e. not through the night), my Power BI running costs will be about $6,000 for the year. I may have to upgrade to A2 at times depending on how it all works and that will cost more. I will also have to pay for Azure DTUs too. I'm hoping that the sum of them will be no more than 15-20% of total revenue, and then I have to add in the many hours of development, the specialist sector support, sales & marketing, telephone support and of course admin time that makes up the full cost of running a service to my clients. And a profit margin if it all goes well!

 

I think Microsoft will have to keep a close eye on adoption. How can they persuade developers to take the financial risk? They haven't provided any clear modelling of activity and cost - that would help. But perhaps it's best when Power BI is just a bolt-on product to an existing service? Anyway, only time will tell....

Regular Visitor
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎08-13-2017

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

[ Edited ]

> I will also have to pay for Azure DTUs too.

 

Depending on your datasource, how frequently it is updated, etc you might find that you can now use the built-in data sources of Power BI rather than relying on DirectQuery? So maybe you can save some money on Azure DTUs?

 

At any rate... is the new Power BI Embedded service available in Australia-East or Australia-SouthEast? I have attempted to create a new instance of the Power BI Embedded service via the portal but I get the message 'Could not create the marketplace item'.

Power BI Team
Posts: 33
Registered: ‎03-22-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

Please try again now, AFAIK the service was live just 4 hours ago, let us know how it goes

Regular Visitor
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎09-19-2017

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

"I get the frustration but would like to make sure the numbers are accurate, costs start at $750 a month for an A1 SKU through Azure, so its a max of $9.000 a year. Now with the new A SKUs in Azure for Power BI Embedded you can also reduce costs by pausing the service when not in use, so this number can go down even more. I agree it is not what it used to be in terms of cost, but its also not what it used to be in terms of value. At the end of the day you make your business decisions, we try our best to make your goals and our goals align"

 

Also, I find the 'you make your business decisions' comment to be unhelpful - the model was very attractive to smaller ISVs. Can Microsoft at least recognise where the frustation has come from, rather than issuing a rather trite 'you make your business decisions response'. ISVs did make a business decision, to embrace a technology with a pricing model. That pricing model has changed. Obviously this will cause friction, a little understanding and explanation as to the cause would probably help the PR a little bit here. I think most people would understand if you were to say that commercially it wasn't successful so we have had to go with a different model. ISVs could have been engaged better in my opinion. All of this could have been easily avoided with a more robust comms exercise from your team.

 

Could you explain what you mean in terms of the increase in value? As the cost has gone up significantly, could you explain how the value has gone up significantly?

Member
Posts: 106
Registered: ‎07-24-2015

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

[ Edited ]

@avive

 

Great to see that Power BI is now in Azure. It is certainly easier for us to work with Azure than with Office 365.

 

However, wile before I had a couple of questions about how Power BI Premium would work -- now I have like 10+ questions.

 

Embedded or Premium - So is it fair to say (although I might be over-simplyfing here), that Power BI Embedded in Azure is the Azure implementation of Power BI Premium, while Premium is the O365 counterpart? So, in a way, PBI embedded is back? 😕😕

 

Gateway - How do we get the Power BI gateway to work with the new Power BI Embedded in Azure?

 

Roles and Row-based Level Security - I need to understand how these would work with Power BI Pro/Premium/Embedded. In particular I have recently noticed that when customising roles for a Tabular Model in Visual Studio, we can now add 'external users'. So I'd like to understand if it would work to  pass an user id of john.doe@some-external-customer-domain.com (providing this external user is added into the tabular model).

 

Azure or O364 - Even though I watched the office hours video, it is still not clear to me (beyond a marketing pitch) on the practical differences between using Power BI in Azure or in O365. In fact we managed to embedded reports at the point using O365 pro only. So it would be great if we could talk with someone at Microsoft how could answer some questions around this objectively.

 

DirectQuery - I have noticed that A1, A2 and A3 are being listed as not supporting DirectQuery. If that is the case, then then this will be a serious show stopper to many uf us here.

 

I might follow up via email.

 

Best Regards & Gmar Chatimah Tova!

 

P.

 

 

 

Regular Visitor
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎09-02-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

[ Edited ]

Ok, its all more or less clear now. 

 

For my entire SAAS I will create a new admin account in azure and provision a new capacity. Can do it manually. Capacity will be shared across all customers of my platform. I will also need to create a PRO account, which will be used to render reports?

capadmin@mycomp.com - "capacity admin"

rls_service@mycomp.com - service account which will be used to create and pass tokens and render reports.

 

 

Now.

1) New Customer signs up

2) I will need to programatically create a new group (or app workspace?) in Power BI (Create Group REST API?)

3) I will need to programatically asiign that group to my Azure Capacity (API?)

4) I will need to copy all my reports to the new created workspace (I know cloning API already exists)

5) User opens report, I use rls_service@mycomp.com to generate a token and pass use email/role -> show the report

 

 

Please HELP with 2 and 3 points!!!

 

PS: Not a single word abotu RM api to pause/start a compacity. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/rest/api/

Power BI Team
Posts: 33
Registered: ‎03-22-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

The below process is accurate.

ARM APIs (to pause/resume, scaleup/down, scale out/in) through Shell scripting in Azure are in the works

Regular Visitor
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎04-28-2016

Re: Power BI Embedded vs Premium: Clarifications

Can we get some clarification? The following page lists the Power BI embedded SKUs

 

https://powerbi.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/powerbi-developer-embedding-content/

 

Capacity NodeTotal cores
(Backend + frontend)
Backend CoresFrontend CoresDirectQuery/live connection limitsMax page renders at peak hour
A11 v-cores.5 cores, 3GB RAM.5 cores 1-300
A22 v-cores1 core, 5GB RAM1 core 301-600
A34 v-cores2 cores, 10GB RAM2 cores 601-1,200
A48 v-cores4 cores, 25GB RAM4 cores30 per second1,201-2,400
A516 v-cores8 cores, 50GB RAM8 cores60 per second2,401-4,800
A632 v-cores16 cores, 100GB RAM16 cores120 per second4,801-9600

 

I am slightly concerned about the column 'DirectQuery/live connection limits', does this imply that an A4 is minimum required for a directquery provision?

 

Thanks

Andrew